Wrong Puzzles? [WSC 2011]

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Is this suitable for a Sudoku competition?

Yes
1
14%
Maybe
0
No votes
No
6
86%
 
Total votes: 7

detuned
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Wrong Puzzles? [WSC 2011]

Post by detuned » Thu 03 Jan, 2019 5:32 pm

Wrong Puzzles [WSC 2011].png
Wrong Puzzles [WSC 2011].png (74.09 KiB) Viewed 154 times
The first round of the 2011 WSC featured a booklet of examples similar to the above, where the only thing required of the solver was to mark whether the solution grid was a valid Sudoku solution, or not.

This does not require the solver to place any numbers.

This year was the first year that WSC and WPC were combined into one venue in one week. This kind of thinking outside the box is common place to the WPC, and it is possible that ideas from the WPC have come to influence WSCs more and more since 2011.

Nilz
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Re: Wrong Puzzles? [WSC 2011]

Post by Nilz » Sun 13 Jan, 2019 11:22 pm

As the only person to vote that this is fair game for a sudoku competition, allow me to put forward my thoughts.
Clearly, it's not a sudoku puzzle, or even a variant. It's a sudoku-related puzzle. I feel that all remotely sudoku-related puzzles should be allowed in the WSC. Conversations on other threads about other examples have (to me at least) seemed to indicate that any attempt to draw a line between which sudoku variants are allowed and which aren't is bound to be arbitrary or hugely subjective (especially when you consider the fact that something completely different may yet be invented which blurs the lines even further). To me, if it 'looks like' a sudoku, it's suitable for a sudoku competition.
I assume that isn't likely to be a popular point of view, although it does have the advantage of simplicity (and 'looks like' could obviously be defined more thoroughly). If you want to find the best sudoku solver, have a few rounds of classics. To include some variants but not others makes no sense to me. This doesn't need to be a two day competition either. If I 'ruled the world', my current thinking is that the World Puzzle week should be organised roughly along the lines of:
-Monday:
World Sudoku Championship, 3 hours max (not necessarily in one go!) of classic Sudokus;
World Tapa Championship, 3 hours max (not necessarily in one go!) of classic Tapas;
World Kakuro Championship, etc
Basically several separate short competitions designed to find the best specialists at each discipline. The exact puzzle types represented could switch around each year, perhaps. Candidates could enter as many or as few as they liked- if they liked the third type but not the second, they could take a few hours off to recharge.
-Tuesday:
As Monday, but variants are allowed. Leeway is given to the designers as to what constitutes a variant. So for example, the puzzle in this thread would be allowed here (and also allowed in a WPC)
-Wednesday-Sunday:
As now- a tour, followed by the WPC, where pretty much anything language neutral goes (possibly you should have at least 30% of 'familiar' puzzles, which is basically an unofficial rule anyway).
Since I don't actually rule the world, I haven't thought out the details thoroughly, but I am interested to read other opinions.
Sorry for hijacking the topic somewhat!

Fred76
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Re: Wrong Puzzles? [WSC 2011]

Post by Fred76 » Mon 14 Jan, 2019 2:27 am

Neil,
Your post could require a very long answer on all points you raised. I'll not comment about the fact that you want to kill the wsc and replace by competitions about different puzzle types.

About the first part of your post, I think the best way is to answer with a puzzle. Here it is:
neil_sudoku.png
neil_sudoku.png (18.12 KiB) Viewed 99 times
I hope you understand with this particular puzzle that your arguments can't be applied for wsc.

Fred

berni
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Re: Wrong Puzzles? [WSC 2011]

Post by berni » Mon 14 Jan, 2019 10:50 am

Fred76 wrote:
Mon 14 Jan, 2019 2:27 am
I hope you understand with this particular puzzle that your arguments can't be applied for wsc.
Sorry, but I don't understand what this puzzles has to do with the discussion...

Fred76
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Re: Wrong Puzzles? [WSC 2011]

Post by Fred76 » Mon 14 Jan, 2019 12:20 pm

berni wrote:
Mon 14 Jan, 2019 10:50 am
Fred76 wrote:
Mon 14 Jan, 2019 2:27 am
I hope you understand with this particular puzzle that your arguments can't be applied for wsc.
Sorry, but I don't understand what this puzzles has to do with the discussion...
Did you solve it?

berni
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Re: Wrong Puzzles? [WSC 2011]

Post by berni » Mon 14 Jan, 2019 1:41 pm

Fred76 wrote:
Mon 14 Jan, 2019 12:20 pm
Did you solve it?
Yes. I assumed it's a classic sudoku and found out, that it has a unique solution.

Fred76
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Re: Wrong Puzzles? [WSC 2011]

Post by Fred76 » Mon 14 Jan, 2019 9:30 pm

berni wrote:
Mon 14 Jan, 2019 1:41 pm
Fred76 wrote:
Mon 14 Jan, 2019 12:20 pm
Did you solve it?
Yes. I assumed it's a classic sudoku and found out, that it has a unique solution.
Oops, sorry, this is my fault: I forgot to write the rules :ugeek: .
Rules:
Draw a single, non-intersecting loop that passes through all cells containing a digit. The loop must go straight through the cells with even digits, with a turn in at least one of the cells immediately before/after each even digit. The loop must make a turn in all cells with odd digits, but must go straight in both cells immediately before/after each odd digit.

It's not that hard for a masyu to disguise in sudoku, in order to enter the wsc party, where Neil is the bouncer.

Fred

Nilz
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Re: Wrong Puzzles? [WSC 2011]

Post by Nilz » Mon 14 Jan, 2019 10:39 pm

:lol:
Very nice Fred. :)
Perhaps 'looks like a sudoku and has at least a semblence of sudoku logic' would be better. But then you'd have to define what a 'semblence of sudoku logic' is. To be fair, I did say I haven't thought out the details thoroughly. However, I am very much still in the camp that says lots of leeway should be given to constructors (except maybe not quite that much leeway).

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