Indian Puzzle Championship

Information and discussion on Puzzle Competitions
drsteve
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Indian Puzzle Championship

Post by drsteve » Fri 10 Sep, 2010 3:54 pm

Don;t think anyone's mentioned this, but this Sunday morning (9:30 to 12) is the Indian Puzzle Championship.

Here's the link - http://logicmastersindia.com/IPC2010/submit.asp - you need to register, but that's easy and free.

Lots of standards here - a bit too much of the cursed Sudoku for my liking, but I'm looking forward to this mainly because it contains a lot of my less favourite puzzles. Should be good practise.

david mcneill
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Re: Indian Puzzle Championship

Post by david mcneill » Fri 10 Sep, 2010 4:31 pm

As far as I can understand from the forum, it is also possible for non-Indian competitors to take part for approximately 24 hours after the live competition closes. That is what I intend to do as I can't compete on Sunday morning.

Good luck to anyone giving it a go. I'm sure we can have some interesting discussions afterwards.

David McNeill.

drsteve
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Re: Indian Puzzle Championship

Post by drsteve » Fri 10 Sep, 2010 5:14 pm

david mcneill wrote:As far as I can understand from the forum, it is also possible for non-Indian competitors to take part for approximately 24 hours after the live competition closes. That is what I intend to do as I can't compete on Sunday morning.

Good luck to anyone giving it a go. I'm sure we can have some interesting discussions afterwards.

David McNeill.
Oh, that's a shame. I thought Tom Snyder would have to do it in the middle of the night! That might have given us an outside chance... but probably not.

Janix
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Re: Indian Puzzle Championship

Post by Janix » Fri 10 Sep, 2010 8:42 pm

Guys

Firstly many congratulations to those that made the team for the WPC - and why not aim for a top 10 finish!

I did the qualifier in a hotel in the depths of Poland (where I was spending the whole month - hence didn't join in postmortems). It was a disaster, from the printer not working (I had checked earlier that day and it was!), I had to solve from the screen for ages, and then putting in wrong answers, etc., etc., etc.

36 hours later, the questions seemed fine, and I cracked quite a few of the harder ones (and enjoyed them!) - no problem. Weird how everyone (except TS) found it hard on the day.

So, good luck for India tomorrow and I hope to redeem myself...

Ken

drsteve
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Re: Indian Puzzle Championship

Post by drsteve » Sun 12 Sep, 2010 3:17 pm

Anyone done this yet? I'm quite keen to post about it, but don't want to spoil an excellent competition.

If you have the time, I would recommend it.

detuned
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Re: Indian Puzzle Championship

Post by detuned » Sun 12 Sep, 2010 3:33 pm

I'm about to give it a go!

PuzzleScot
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Re: Indian Puzzle Championship

Post by PuzzleScot » Sun 12 Sep, 2010 4:49 pm

2.5 hours is a chunk of time to find. Maybe tonight. End time is 1pm BST tomorrow, right? (12:00:01 pm GMT 9/13/10)

dickoon
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Re: Indian Puzzle Championship

Post by dickoon » Sun 12 Sep, 2010 5:59 pm

Thoroughly enjoyable; I think I've solved nine puzzles for a possible 570 and managed to finish a tenth puzzle only seconds too late. Best of all, I ended up feeling that with another hour or two then I'd have been able to have at least a good crack at most of the remaining puzzles; conversely, iIn the past, I've had problems with even the USPC by getting, say, three-quarters of the way through the time and feeling that I didn't even know how to start any of the rest. Many thanks to everyone at LMI; I'm really impressed both with their test system and with their papers.

drsteve
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Re: Indian Puzzle Championship

Post by drsteve » Sun 12 Sep, 2010 6:29 pm

dickoon wrote:Thoroughly enjoyable; I think I've solved nine puzzles for a possible 570 and managed to finish a tenth puzzle only seconds too late. Best of all, I ended up feeling that with another hour or two then I'd have been able to have at least a good crack at most of the remaining puzzles; conversely, iIn the past, I've had problems with even the USPC by getting, say, three-quarters of the way through the time and feeling that I didn't even know how to start any of the rest. Many thanks to everyone at LMI; I'm really impressed both with their test system and with their papers.
If you look at their forum, there's a link halfway down page 4 to check your individual score. Apparently there's a problem with the automated marking on Spot the Difference and Battleships, so these will be checked manually, but you can see how much of the rest you got right. This is the link -

http://logicmastersindia.com/IPC2010/score.asp

You probably need to be logged in first.

detuned
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Re: Indian Puzzle Championship

Post by detuned » Sun 12 Sep, 2010 6:56 pm

Just finished, only the two answer mistakes (silly transpositions) so far so definitely an improvement. Albeit those 80 points I should have had on the box123, and the 140 on the irregular sudoku would certainly have been nice. I fouled up the poplotek, dominos and the paint by numbers - with all of those I'd have had a pretty decent score. I'm not sure what's going on with the spot the difference either - it printed very poorly but I was fairly confident I had 4.

Maybe if I'd seen a divisible 3 sudoku before it would have been a regulation puzzle, but as it was, the moment when I saw the trick to solving it was a real highlight!

drsteve
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Re: Indian Puzzle Championship

Post by drsteve » Sun 12 Sep, 2010 7:05 pm

detuned wrote:Just finished, only the two answer mistakes (silly transpositions) so far so definitely an improvement. Albeit those 80 points I should have had on the box123, and the 140 on the irregular sudoku would certainly have been nice. I fouled up the poplotek, dominos and the paint by numbers - with all of those I'd have had a pretty decent score. I'm not sure what's going on with the spot the difference either - it printed very poorly but I was fairly confident I had 4.

Maybe if I'd seen a divisible 3 sudoku before it would have been a regulation puzzle, but as it was, the moment when I saw the trick to solving it was a real highlight!
Well, I'll be vague at the moment as it's still open internationally for a few hours.

Didn't check my answers because I was beavering away trying to solve what I thought was the last puzzle - with another five minutes, I reckon I would have got it, too.

However... missed a bridge, miscounted my SFINKS and missed the fact that my ploppytek (or whatever) was completely wrong. I know I should be happy with that score, but I'm kicking myself that it could/should have been higher. Still, excellent competition and am pleased that I got four out of five of the sudokus out.

Did think that there wasn't much of a link between score for each puzzle and the time spent on it though, with the possible exception of the dominos.

Chris
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Re: Indian Puzzle Championship

Post by Chris » Sun 12 Sep, 2010 8:04 pm

I almost feel as though I am gate crashing this forum as I am by no means (or ever will be) a puzzle expert, but I am a very enthusiastic amateur just looking to continually improve my puzzling skills within my own capabilities. With this in mind I have entered a couple of online competitions on the LMI site recently with very limited success, but then the only way is up, and I reckon that the more I do, the quicker and more accurate I might become!

Anyway, to get to the point I did this competition this afternoon and was reasonably happy with my score of 415,( I was never expecting great things) just very disappointed that I lost some points unnecessarily by a) inverting two of the letters in one of the unused words in LMI fill therefore losing 80 points because of a typing error, and (b) also losing 20 points on the Easy As ABC because I didn't realise that you had to key in an X for the empty space. I thought I had Fences correct (110 points) but on closer inspection realised I had a beautiful loop but had only filled in 1 line segment around a number 2 (doh!)

Ones I managed to complete in the time were the classic sudoku, Killer sudoku, kakuro, word search (an easy 95 points), Trimino clubs, Shield, ABC connection.

I found I wasted quite a bit of time on one or two puzzles which I got stuck on half way through and decided I had wasted enough time on! Anyway, some great puzzles which I will go back and try to finish at my leisure!

On the subject of elistism (your separate thread!) I will take no offence whatsoever at hearing what scores the expert solvers amongst you reach (will just be slightly envious) because the world would be a boring place if we all had the same talents and abilities.

drsteve
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Re: Indian Puzzle Championship

Post by drsteve » Sun 12 Sep, 2010 8:54 pm

Welcome to the board, Chris. It's great to see that there are newcomers to attempting these competitions.
Chris wrote:a) inverting two of the letters in one of the unused words in LMI fill therefore losing 80 points because of a typing error, and (b) also losing 20 points on the Easy As ABC because I didn't realise that you had to key in an X for the empty space. I thought I had Fences correct (110 points) but on closer inspection realised I had a beautiful loop but had only filled in 1 line segment around a number 2 (doh!)

Ones I managed to complete in the time were the classic sudoku, Killer sudoku, kakuro, word search (an easy 95 points), Trimino clubs, Shield, ABC connection.

On the subject of elistism (your separate thread!) I will take no offence whatsoever at hearing what scores the expert solvers amongst you reach (will just be slightly envious) because the world would be a boring place if we all had the same talents and abilities.
If you ask the organisers nicely, they might give you the points for the LMI thingy. I was stupid enough to enter the column followed by the row for the Killer Sudoku, which I realised after the time. They judged it that obviously I'd solved the puzzle and awarded the points.

So, out of curiousity, as a relative newcomer to these competitions, was there anything on this competition that you considered unstartable? If so, maybe we can start a different thread with some ideas for those puzzles or with a walkthrough of the ones in the test.

drsteve
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Re: Indian Puzzle Championship

Post by drsteve » Sun 12 Sep, 2010 8:57 pm

detuned wrote: Maybe if I'd seen a divisible 3 sudoku before it would have been a regulation puzzle, but as it was, the moment when I saw the trick to solving it was a real highlight!
I'd done a little bit of preparation beforehand and presumed that there was only one sort of way it would work and assumed that from the start. Went a bit wrong a couple of times, but still with the right strategy, it's quite quick. I suppose it depends on how long it takes to spot it - I can't really see much scope for many repeats of this format

Chris
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Re: Indian Puzzle Championship

Post by Chris » Sun 12 Sep, 2010 9:13 pm

Thanks for the reply - i have done as you suggested and asked the administrators if i could have the points (worth a try anyway!)

The jigsaw sudoku I almost had, just ran out of time (although the end bit was getting quite difficult). I'd like to think I might get the other sudoku variants given plenty of time (my brain doesn't go that fast!)

The ones i didn't even try were Arrows (didn't know how to start using logic rather than guess work!), SFINKS Cut, Poplotek, Dominoes (just simply too tedious), Skyscrapers which I normally enjoy but have never attempted when all the cells need not be filled.

More More I spent about 15 minutes on, thought I had it, and then realised I had made a mistake somewhere along the line. Hitori,, bridges, paint by numbers I could attempt but not my favourite puzzles.

detuned
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Re: Indian Puzzle Championship

Post by detuned » Sun 12 Sep, 2010 9:52 pm

drsteve wrote:
detuned wrote: Maybe if I'd seen a divisible 3 sudoku before it would have been a regulation puzzle, but as it was, the moment when I saw the trick to solving it was a real highlight!
I'd done a little bit of preparation beforehand and presumed that there was only one sort of way it would work and assumed that from the start. Went a bit wrong a couple of times, but still with the right strategy, it's quite quick. I suppose it depends on how long it takes to spot it - I can't really see much scope for many repeats of this format
Yeah exactly - when you do see the trick, it does become pretty regulation. Minus your mistakes, getting within a whisker of finishing I think bodes very well for the WPC. I think I had about 5 left at the end (including the ones I unfortunately messed up).

To Chris - please don't feel like you are gatecrashing! There are relatively few of us so far, and we are actively looking to increase our numbers, so thanks for posting! Did you have a go at the USPC as well?

PuzzleScot
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Re: Indian Puzzle Championship

Post by PuzzleScot » Sun 12 Sep, 2010 11:21 pm

Firstly, for those who don't know, Chris has been to at least 3 WPCs that I know of, for one of which he did an excellent job as captain.
His performance relative to the field in Brno was better than anything I've ever achieved in my 3 appearances! Not hard, I know, so "Welcome Chris! You certainly have respect from me."

OK, I've just finished the test, and personally, I'm delighted with my results!
I gave all the Sudokus a wide berth, then corectly answered all but 2 of the remaining (WPC-style, not WSC-style!) puzzles, for a provisional 1335.

Spot the Difference - I got 3, and guessed at a 4th. I'm marked as wrong, but I understand the scoring isn't reliable on this one, so I may have 1410...
Skyscrapers - I got all the 5s in, and found myself guessing, so spent the remaining 5 minutes double-checking my answer keys.

I feel pretty fortunate on the paint by numbers, when I realised late on that I'd made a mistake somewhere, but carried on regardless, and my answer key matched the one they were expecting - woot. I had that as a 50/50 - Would NOT have got away with that in a real contest... swings & roundabouts.

Easiest points was on Triminos - over in about 15 seconds!
Next easiest was an incredulous 110 points for the Fence (c.60 seconds)
Some puzzles took several goes to get right and wasted a lot of time that could have been used on Sudoku - LMI Fill, Sfinks Cut, Shield, Box 321, Polotek, but I don't care too much for Sudoku anyway (have I mentioned that before?)

Hats off to the Indians for another great contest we can only hope to emulate oursleves! Wonderful.

PuzzleScot
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Re: Indian Puzzle Championship

Post by PuzzleScot » Sun 12 Sep, 2010 11:38 pm

erm, to clarify, the Chris I was referring to was Chris Dickson (dickoon), whose name was once humorously reported by the anti-obscenity filter of one WPC host as 'Chris Thingyson'...

Welcome to the new Chris too! We hope you enjoy being a part of our small, but growing, community. :)

dickoon
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Re: Indian Puzzle Championship

Post by dickoon » Mon 13 Sep, 2010 4:39 am

Welcome to the other Chris! We are puzzle people and shall not be confused by such trifling coincidences. :)

I suppose I should have called myself Thingyoon here, come to think of it...

Chris
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Re: Indian Puzzle Championship

Post by Chris » Mon 13 Sep, 2010 6:05 am

Thanks for the welcome - just wish my puzzling performance was as good as the other Chris's! Actually I am a Christine (Gareth will recognise that name from his Sudoku Xtra forum as I have ben posting there since it began - a fabulous magazine for anyone who hasn't yet tried it- and before that on the BBC Mind Games forum until the magazine folded. Congrats on your performances in the indian puzzle championship and I look forward to picking up a few tips along the way!

P.S. I got my 80 points awarded for the LMI gridfill (I had missed a letter off one of the words) which brought my score to 495 - slightly more respectable!!)

Maxelkat
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Re: Indian Puzzle Championship

Post by Maxelkat » Mon 13 Sep, 2010 6:58 am

I decided, based on my poor showing last weekend, and the fact that I just haven't got hours to spare sometimes, that for the foreseeable I will just print the contest off and work through it at my leisure. I'm working on the basis that I need to learn how to solve the puzzles, before I can learn to solve them quickly!

Anyway, I solved enjoyed the puzzles I properly attempted, but there were shockingly many that I couldn't even get a foothold on.
I've not really tried Arrows before, and couldn't see how to start.
I couldn't see how to start Battleships, except for putting some sea either side of row S.
I didn't really understand the premise of Shield, and was clueless how to get going.
On Box 321, another new one on me, I placed the horizontal 321 and the vertical 231 but could move no further.
Poplotek was ploppytek for me.
And I have enough trouble with Skyscrapers anyway without them putting those pesky blanks in!

If anyone can give me pointers on these puzzles I'd be grateful, but failing that, what do you do when you meet a puzzle for the first time? Is there a knack to quickly and effectively working out the implications of rules? Does it come with practice, or are some people just naturals at it?

Elliott

PS. Welcome to new Chris :)

PuzzleScot
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Re: Indian Puzzle Championship

Post by PuzzleScot » Mon 13 Sep, 2010 7:24 am

Elliott,

I've never seen Shield, Poplotek, Trimino Clubs or Box321 before either.
It is very common, if not expected, that a decent puzzle contest will introduce some new puzzle types.

I think there should be a new thread in General Puzzle Discussions about how to approach new types in general, rather than here. (for easier future reference). Also, there happens to be threads on Arrows and Battleships already there, which might help you getting started.

Just quickly on the battleships - note that there are a total of 20 cells used by the ships, despite one of them being missing from the pictorial representation. Now add up the digits you see for each row/column, and deduce the values for the remaining rows/columns ;)

david mcneill
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Re: Indian Puzzle Championship

Post by david mcneill » Mon 13 Sep, 2010 8:13 am

Hi everyone. Sat up really late last night to do the Indian Puzzle Championship. Apart from the Spot the Differences, I think I have solved everything else correctly, but only with a couple of minutes to spare. I definitely found 3 of the differences during the contest, and another 1 afterwards. (Still haven't found the 5th difference.) However, I submitted a dodgy 4th, based on the poor quality of the drawing.

I think the Skyscrapers was, for me, the hardest puzzle. Dominoes was time-consuming but OK. Arrows also took a lot of time but can be solved logically. I loved the Divisible by 3 Sudoku (eventually) and also liked the Killer Sudoku.

More chat after the contest closes?

David McNeill.

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Re: Indian Puzzle Championship

Post by PuzzleScot » Mon 13 Sep, 2010 8:28 am

Apart from the Spot the Differences, I think I have solved everything else correctly,
Wow. I knew someone would do it. Well done David!

I've been given credit for my 4th spot-the-difference, so if you've picked up on the same one, you'll have aced this!
More chat after the contest closes?
Oh indeed, puzzle-specific discussions need to wait until 1pm today.

david mcneill
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Re: Indian Puzzle Championship

Post by david mcneill » Mon 13 Sep, 2010 8:44 am

Alan,

Just found out that I have been given credit for the Spot the Differences, so have to be happy. Scared to think how quickly Thomas and co may have solved these.

All the best,

David.

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