croco-puzzle

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GarethMoore
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by GarethMoore » Tue 23 Nov, 2010 6:22 pm

nickdeller wrote:I have read the story of the tortoise and the hare, but I was in a bit of a hurry, skimmed most of it and never got round to finishing it. The general gist is that the hare wins easily, isn't it? :lol:
One of the funniest things I've read in a long time, given the context!!!

Awesome.

ronaldx
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by ronaldx » Thu 25 Nov, 2010 11:38 pm

This site is fast teaching me to actually check my answers!
Another reasonable score killed with a Fehlversuch... and oenomel pulls away from me once more :(

detuned
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by detuned » Fri 26 Nov, 2010 5:01 pm

Well that's very odd...

My account seems to have been deleted. I'm no longer on the ratings list, and the time I registered earlier (1.45) for today's puzzle is marked "Anonym"

:shock:

ronaldx
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by ronaldx » Fri 26 Nov, 2010 5:24 pm

Tom - have you tried contacting Berni? I'm afraid I can't find his details on the site but maybe you could ping him a message here, or I'm sure he'll be along later to comment! Good luck!

PuzzleScot
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by PuzzleScot » Sat 27 Nov, 2010 9:37 am

berni's right - a fehlversuch means I would have got 0 points in a real contest. I'm slipping fast now...

Nice to see another Brit appear high on the table!
Come on Paul, say hello...

detuned
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by detuned » Sat 27 Nov, 2010 2:13 pm

It turns out I'd managed to click on a "delete account" link somewhere. Unfortunately Berni couldn't rescue the progress I'd made and so it looks like it'll be an awful long while until I'll be ahead of David M again (who was 2 puzzles behind me) :)

berni
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by berni » Sat 27 Nov, 2010 5:27 pm

detuned wrote:It turns out I'd managed to click on a "delete account" link somewhere.
Watch for "Benutzerkonto->Benutzerkonto löschen".
Unfortunately Berni couldn't rescue the progress I'd made and so it looks like it'll be an awful long while until I'll be ahead of David M again (who was 2 puzzles behind me) :)
No, no. It will only take until tomorrow in the morning. The rating is completely recalculated every night.

nickdeller
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by nickdeller » Wed 01 Dec, 2010 10:54 am

There seem to be a lot of changes on the site today. Could one of the German-speakers talk us through the most important parts, please?

berni
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by berni » Wed 01 Dec, 2010 11:35 am

nickdeller wrote:There seem to be a lot of changes on the site today. Could one of the German-speakers talk us through the most important parts, please?
There is a second "Überraschungsrätsel". - This was the most important part! :D

Well. The puzzletypes are divided into two leagues. 12 puzzletypes in the first one and the rest in the second one (see "Ligasystem"). These leagues decide, which puzzletypes will be in which Überraschungsrätsel and how often they will appear.

Every month you can vote three puzzles up and three puzzles down in every ligue (click on "Zur Abstimmung" on "Ligasystem"). You can change your vote until 20th of every month. The table at the end of the 20th is the final table. Every midnight a new table is calculated.

There are two more new menuentries: "Tagesrating" - this is sort of short time performance and "Technische Daten" - some technical data.

ronaldx
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by ronaldx » Wed 01 Dec, 2010 1:11 pm

Did the second puzzle get cancelled? What a shame, I had a fast time (and it would have been faster if I hadn't accidentally deleted the wrong colour!)

berni
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by berni » Wed 01 Dec, 2010 1:33 pm

ronaldx wrote:Did the second puzzle get cancelled? What a shame, I had a fast time (and it would have been faster if I hadn't accidentally deleted the wrong colour!)
Yes indeed. There was a bug. People with a "Fehlversuch" were not able to send their results.

detuned
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by detuned » Thu 02 Dec, 2010 12:29 am

Wowza - skyscrapers today I thought I was making steadyish progress with before noticing something that basically forced a restart and a painstaking solve. Tough stuff - and certainly a come down after breezing through the masyu!

Berni - two puzzles a day certainly gets my vote, regardless of which leagues they are in!

Calavera
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by Calavera » Thu 02 Dec, 2010 1:50 am

Before anyone starts the quite hard skyscraper: It seems there was a minor bug which probably will cause a reset of this second puzzle, too. It is planned that puzzle #2 can already be started at 11pm, but those who tried it this night couldn't submit their answers :D. This also explains the interesting time of Phillip (26:xx with 5 Fehlversuche).

PuzzleScot
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by PuzzleScot » Fri 03 Dec, 2010 9:43 am

I had to give up today's Pills - Couldn't see logically past about 10 cells - I must be missing something. Trial & Error failed on 4 paths, so gave up :(

nickdeller
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by nickdeller » Fri 03 Dec, 2010 12:14 pm

It was only trial and error that got me through the Pillen too, Alan - reasonably methodical choices of things to trial got me onto a totally logical path on the third try. I'd better go take a screen shot of the sticking point for discussion tomorrow, because other peoples' times make me think it's easier than we made it look. :-)

detuned
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by detuned » Fri 03 Dec, 2010 1:29 pm

I didn't find the logic hard, I think it was just my unfamiliarity with the puzzle that kept leading me to make silly errors...must have restarted the blasted puzzle 3 or 4 times.

If it's any vague help, I found it easiest to concentrate on the big numbers (12,11,10) and where they could possibly lie to get me started...

ronaldx
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by ronaldx » Fri 03 Dec, 2010 1:32 pm

The Pillen had a logical path - I just shifted the last pill one place to the right :(

Tom is right to start with the big ones.

The '12' pill must be 4-4-4, and must fit onto a row or col with capacity for 12
The '11' pill must be 4-4-3 (in some order), and must fit onto a row or col with capacity for 11
and so on.

The lower numbers are a lot harder to place - because they don't start with the equivalent (0-0-0 doesn't exist)
and, more importantly, you don't get a clue from the row and col capacities.

Hope this helps Alan!

Calavera
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by Calavera » Fri 03 Dec, 2010 2:00 pm

Depending on the puzzle there are also other techniques that can be applied:

- blacken numbers that are too big for the total value of a column/row
- blacken numbers that can't be part of the sum for the total value (single odd number in row with even sum, etc.)
- mark number as used that have to be part of the sum (single odd number in row with odd sum, big numbers without which the sum would be too small, etc.)
- blacken numbers (especially in corners) that can't be part of a pill cause the resulting sums are bigger than the total values outside

Obviously these steps influence each others.

PuzzleScot
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by PuzzleScot » Fri 03 Dec, 2010 2:06 pm

The '12' pill must be 4-4-4 ...
This implies there's a rule I don't know about - are you saying all the pills add up to different values? <groan>

ronaldx
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by ronaldx » Fri 03 Dec, 2010 2:10 pm

Yes ;) Each pill must take a different value from 1-12 (values stated at the bottom of the puzzle, or before you hit 'start')

dickoon
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by dickoon » Fri 03 Dec, 2010 10:32 pm

Can anyone give pointers to getting started with Laser puzzles, please? (No pun intended.) I can't even get started with the puzzle type (not trying on today's U-ratsel, trying the 7x7 weekly prize puzzle from the start of the year) and the usual sources - or, at least, the usual English-language sources - aren't coming up with details.

nickdeller
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by nickdeller » Fri 03 Dec, 2010 11:07 pm

dickoon wrote:Can anyone give pointers to getting started with Laser puzzles, please? (No pun intended.) I can't even get started with the puzzle type (not trying on today's U-ratsel, trying the 7x7 weekly prize puzzle from the start of the year) and the usual sources - or, at least, the usual English-language sources - aren't coming up with details.
Can I first confirm that you've understood all the puzzle rules correctly?

The laser enters at one arrow and exits at the other.
Some one-sided mirrors are placed at the grid intersections to reflect the beam - the number of mirrors on a particular grid line may be clued outside the grid.
The number of squares passed through by the beam in a row or column may be clued outside the grid.
The beam MUST cross itself at the points marked X, and CANNOT cross - nor even touch - at any other places. Mirrors, as remarked, are one-sided.

The 7x7 Preisraetsel is reasonably straightforward, with just one slightly fiddly piece of logic towards the end of the solve in the bottom couple of rows. Let us know if you need additional nudges!

Calavera
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by Calavera » Sat 04 Dec, 2010 12:52 am

What might help, too, is the information that the clues for the mirrors are on one side of the puzzle (right, bottom) and the clues for the passed squares are on the other (left, top). Knowing that you don't have to check every time if the clue is on the level of a line or on the level of a cell.

euklid
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by euklid » Sat 04 Dec, 2010 2:05 pm

An important (perhaps) non-trivial tip for Laser is the following:
If you color all the squares in checkerboard-fashon, then all the black squares will have laser beams in one direction (or will be empty) and all the white squares have laser beams in the other direction (or will be empty).
More importantly there is a similar condition for the crossing points where the mirrors have to be placed. The positions of the mirrors can only lie on a regular grid-like pattern (I cannot find a better description at the moment). This rules out every second crossing point.

Stefan

dickoon
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by dickoon » Sat 04 Dec, 2010 3:12 pm

Thanks, team. I got through it at about the third attempt with a festival of fehlversuchen, but at least I got through it. Much appreciated and probably good material to be spun off into a thread about the puzzle type on the appropriate other board,

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