croco-puzzle

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dickoon
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by dickoon » Sun 05 Dec, 2010 10:14 am

Can I beg your assistance with yesterday's Doppelstern, please? I did get it eventually, but through a lot of trial and error (not nearly two hours' worth - there was a gap of an hour or so to shovel the snow!) and may well have missed a crucial logical step fairly on.
doppelstern.png
doppelstern.png (6.36 KiB) Viewed 12770 times
The picture shows about as far as I got logically.

1) The top-left 3x1 box forces the top row and the boxes around the stars in the central-left box. The bottom-central box clearly can't have a star in its centre. I have marked these in in black.

2) From there, at the top-right and bottom-right I have some 3x2 boxes remaining, where I can fill in two blank spaces through similar logic to the 3x1 box and must place one star to the left of the blanks in the top box. Accordingly this rules out the right-hand two squares remaining of the top-central box, which forces the star in the top-central box in order to be able to place two boxes in somewhere, which rules out the eight squares around it. I have marked these in in red.

3) Similarly, in the bottom-right I can rule out the centre row, and must rule out the bottom-right two squares of the right-central box by virtue of the star in the top half of the bottom-right box. This then rules out the top-right square of the central box and forces a star in the bottom-right two squares of the central box, which rules out the top-left two squares of the bottom-central box. Ruling out the top-right square of the central box also rules out the lower-left square in the right-central box. I have marked these in in orange.

I think this was about as far as I got logically (in fact, a little further) and after this point I had to start guessing. What logic am I missing from this point, please? Thanks in advance for your help!

Calavera
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by Calavera » Sun 05 Dec, 2010 10:57 am

Field c3r4 must be empty because otherwise there'd be no two stars in the top middle box.

Fields c1/2r7 must be empty because there are three areas with six stars for the lower three rows.

Field c5r4 or c6r4 must contain a star, as must c5r8, c5r9 and c6r9 so that there are 4 stars in the columns 5 and 6.

Thus there must be exactly one star in the lower three cells of the 7th column. Not in the middle because this would cause three stars to be in the right-most column.

Fields c7r4/5/6 must be empty because there is one star above and one below. Same is true for c9r4/5.

Looking at rows 5 and 6 (or alternatively row two) causes a star to be placed in c8r5.

c2r4 must be empty so that there is exactly one star in the three fields above.

Further than that I can't see anything without taking notes. And during the Ü-Rätsel I wasn't able to see all that but started halfways through these hints with trial and error.

Calavera
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by Calavera » Sun 05 Dec, 2010 11:49 am

I just recognized that maybe the english speaking community isn't aware of the maybe most important change that came with the update: The mysterious +/- tool. ;)

This is simply an easy way for trial and error. Click on the "+" to start a trial and error branch. The current state is saved. Continue solving. Clicking on "-" returns to the saved state. Clicking again on "+" opens another branch. Now clicking on minus returns to the last saved point. Clicking it again returns to the save point before that etc. When accidentally clicking on "-" you can undo this by clicking on "Rückgängig". Do not use "+" in this case as this will open a new branch.

Just try it out a little bit. It is really cool!

nickdeller
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by nickdeller » Sun 05 Dec, 2010 2:49 pm

Interesting new Preisratsel today - Doppelblock - I thought I'd do a quick and dirty translation of the puzzle rules.

Place the given set of digits (1 to 4 in the Preisratsel example) plus two black squares into each row and column. Clues around the grid give the sum of the digits placed in between the two black squares in that row or column. Apart from placing two black squares in each row and column, there are no other restrictions on their placement.

nickdeller
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by nickdeller » Tue 07 Dec, 2010 12:46 am

Is there a problem with the U2 U-Bahn today? I tried and failed to solve the puzzle earlier, registering 2 Fehlversuche in the process. Have just gone back to it (reloading the applet), successfully solved this time, but it hasn't shown up on the scoreboard. It seems rather odd to me that all the successful solves are without Fehlversuche!

Calavera
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by Calavera » Tue 07 Dec, 2010 1:22 am

Well, no Fehlversuche is not that surprising as there are still very few solutions. And with the given solutions times most people completely check their solution before submitting it. Plus there is a logical solving path, although certainly not obvious.
That your solution doesn't appear in the list is strange (no such reports in the German forum so far). Did you wait until the red text changed the color? (The red font color was added recently to warn users not to close the window before the solution was successfully committed.) If that's was the case the best to do would be to solve again and wait for the color change. I'm pretty sure nearly every solver will get positive points for this one.
If you don't believe this to be the cause of the error better send a message to berni to check.

nickdeller
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by nickdeller » Tue 07 Dec, 2010 1:28 am

Calavera wrote:Did you wait until the red text changed the color? (The red font color was added recently to warn users not to close the window before the solution was successfully committed.) If that's was the case the best to do would be to solve again and wait for the color change.
Ah, I wasn't aware of that! Oh dear. I hope I can remember enough of the solution to do it again at a reasonable pace! :-)

nickdeller
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by nickdeller » Tue 07 Dec, 2010 2:14 am

Well, I've logged a time anyway! :o Thanks for the help. I think what may have happened is that it got stuck on some red text, which I guess must have meant something like "Failed to log your time. Please keep hitting Testen until it works".

ronaldx
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by ronaldx » Tue 07 Dec, 2010 4:14 pm

Hey, I'm pretty sure there is a problem with the app...

When I pressed the 'loschen' button next to pink, it erased all the black lines (the current colour I was working on: this was my solution that I spent ages on!!) I thought it should erase the pink lines like in the past!

I'm not sure if this was because I was inside a Stufe trial?

Edit: That's weird, I can't recreate this problem now, but I'm pretty sure it happened more than once?! It's possible, of course, that I'm going mad. Spending an hour working out all the U-Bahn stations is not good for anyone, surely.

Calavera
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by Calavera » Tue 07 Dec, 2010 5:36 pm

Hmm, after there are some reports of weird color-behaviour I'd say there is a bug hidden there. But so far berni has not found him. So maybe best mail him with as much details as possible so that he might be able to find the bug faster.

Apart from that in such a case you can always try to click "Rückgängig" which should undo the last action. Don't know how it might behave after such a weird action...

berni
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by berni » Wed 08 Dec, 2010 8:50 am

ronaldx wrote:When I pressed the 'loschen' button next to pink, it erased all the black lines (the current colour I was working on...
Is fixed now. Indeed in the subway-applet the working colour was deleted instead of the clicked one. Sorry for inconvenience.

ronaldx
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by ronaldx » Thu 09 Dec, 2010 3:14 pm

Hey Alan! I noticed that you'll be the first(?) Brit to hit 20kyu on your next puzzle! Congratulations! See you there soon ;)

PuzzleScot
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by PuzzleScot » Thu 09 Dec, 2010 5:38 pm

No I won't! - paulredman is already 8th Kyu... (but thanks anyway)
I see you overtook me today (or yesterday) :(
I thought I could catch up with Nick again, but too many fehlversuchs recently..

nickdeller
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by nickdeller » Thu 09 Dec, 2010 7:32 pm

I've set myself a little challenge, to stay in the lead in our little group until someone overtakes me. Really could have done without the Fehlversuch on today's Killer, luckily it was a fairly easily fixed one involving a couple of the large regions being added up wrongly.

Have we definitely established that paulredman is UK rather than US or elsewhere? Not that my competitive streak is kicking in or anything...! :-D

PuzzleScot
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by PuzzleScot » Thu 09 Dec, 2010 8:50 pm

Have we definitely established that paulredman is UK
Yes. His IP is definitely UK too.

dickoon
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by dickoon » Thu 09 Dec, 2010 11:49 pm

Well, I was going to come and congratulate Alan if Ronald hadn't done it... :)

The weird thing is that, looking at Alan's graph he has a 200-day rolling average of 103, but doesn't seem to have had the 20th kyu, er, wrapped around him yet. Is there more to earning titles than meets the eye, or is it just a matter of time at this point?

*waves* Hello, Paul!

PuzzleScot
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by PuzzleScot » Fri 10 Dec, 2010 12:07 am

Cheers Chris, but not quite yet for whatever reason. Maybe I have to perform some puzzling Kata for the grading board?
Couple of very logical (but hard) puzzles for today...

Calavera
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by Calavera » Fri 10 Dec, 2010 12:10 am

As far as I know the new ranks are given at 5 am when the scores of the day before are re-calculated (to include solutions committed after midnight).

nickdeller
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by nickdeller » Fri 10 Dec, 2010 1:05 am

Well, well! Congrats to Alan, and hello Paul. :-)

david mcneill
Posts: 392
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by david mcneill » Fri 10 Dec, 2010 8:30 am

I was unable to log on to Crocopuzzle this morning. The message said that there had been too many failed log-on attempts. However, I hadn't made any failed attempts to log on. Is there a fault or has someone else been trying to log on via my account?

David.

PuzzleScot
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by PuzzleScot » Fri 10 Dec, 2010 9:26 am

@David: I had an email saying that due to a security fix, everyone needed to recreate their passwords. I know these things are normally suspicious, but it needs to be done. email berni if you didn't get the message.

[Oh, and I got my 20th Kyu confirmed by email this am too. The only was is up!]

dickoon
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by dickoon » Fri 10 Dec, 2010 9:42 am

Another way to know that the password change request is genuine is that something very similar is mentioned on the latest news page. I am using the Chrome browser a great deal these days, which has an automatic translation feature - though it can only translate text written as part of web pages, rather than embedded within applets. The quality is, well, only as good as automatic translation ever is, but it's close enough for jazz.

Congratulations now, Alan! Does this make you a cream-coloured belt, or something?

ronaldx
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by ronaldx » Fri 10 Dec, 2010 2:07 pm

David: You have to request a password change and change it to include an uppercase letter, lowercase letter, and digit.

david mcneill
Posts: 392
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by david mcneill » Fri 10 Dec, 2010 3:51 pm

Thanks everyone. Got it sorted now.

David.

dickoon
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Re: croco-puzzle

Post by dickoon » Sun 12 Dec, 2010 7:33 pm

Rough and ready translation, quite possibly inaccurate, to the rules of today's new prize puzzle, Slalom: place a diagonal stroke one way or the other across each square in the grid so that (a) each numbered intersection has the appropriate number of strokes leading to it and (b) there are no closed shapes formed within the grid purely by the diagonal lines. The prize puzzle was fairly simple (tip: work from the outside in) but I enjoyed it.

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