Sudoku Classic

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Avina
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Sudoku Classic

Post by Avina » Wed 05 Nov, 2014 11:46 am

Hello.
I created the puzzle of Classic.
Enjoy of solving it.
Avina
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Fred76
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Re: Sudoku Classic

Post by Fred76 » Wed 05 Nov, 2014 12:15 pm

It has several (5) solutions :o

Fred

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Avina
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Re: Sudoku Classic

Post by Avina » Wed 05 Nov, 2014 1:25 pm

yes Mr Fred, this has several solution, but this is important that you will choose the better solution. The better solution is the same 1 solution, because in some of cells(4 cells) there are pair shared value, but 1 of those cells has 3 digit and we must the digit that is difference with pair numbers. If we select this solution in all of the puzzle, we will have only 1 solution. The pair digits are one of the rule of sudoku (X); but in this puzzle in the rule (X) has in one of cells 3 digit and we select this digit. Do you understand my mean?
Please don't use of solver sudoku and you solve by yourselves.
;)

Fred76
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Re: Sudoku Classic

Post by Fred76 » Wed 05 Nov, 2014 7:01 pm

Avina wrote:yes Mr Fred, this has several solution, but this is important that you will choose the better solution. The better solution is the same 1 solution, because in some of cells(4 cells) there are pair shared value, but 1 of those cells has 3 digit and we must the digit that is difference with pair numbers. If we select this solution in all of the puzzle, we will have only 1 solution. The pair digits are one of the rule of sudoku (X); but in this puzzle in the rule (X) has in one of cells 3 digit and we select this digit. Do you understand my mean?
I'm not sure I understand your point, but in all cases I don't agree: A sudoku must have a unique solution, and if it has more than one solution, there is no "better solution".
I think you're speaking about the technique of "unique rectangles" that you can use to solve a sudoku that has a unique solution. When you create a sudoku, you have to be sure that the solution is unique, so you've to be careful not using this technique while testing your sudoku.
On your sudoku, there is no "better solution" avoiding these rectangles. Either there are pairs 37 in R56C37, either you've pairs 13 in R15C23 ;)

Avina wrote:Please don't use of solver sudoku and you solve by yourselves.
;)
Be assured that I'm able to solve some sudokus without solver :mrgreen:

Fred

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Avina
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Re: Sudoku Classic

Post by Avina » Sat 08 Nov, 2014 6:45 am

Dear fred76,
:!: I have designed this on purpose, because I expected the professionals to pick one of the answers from the five, and because there is no competition here, so there is no problem to have such a puzzle here but on condition that to choose the best answer.
Even in solver sudoku, when it is solved singly; that gives the best solution to what I have in mind, but it shows both of the five answers in whole.
I know that every puzzle must have unique solution and I can change that only and only have 1 solution, but I don't want to do, because with choose the best answer, my puzzle will have 1 answer and the other answer is will failed.
In pairs 37 in R56C37 and so there is "1" in C3, and then if we choose "1" in C3, the puzzle will be solved very simply until the end. And my intention was exactly this.
:?: By the way, is it possible to see these : http://sudokuvariante.blogspot.com/& http://sudokuvariante.forumactif.com/ in English language?
Be successful.
Avina

uvo
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Re: Sudoku Classic

Post by uvo » Sat 08 Nov, 2014 10:22 am

There is no such thing as a best solution. If your puzzle has five solutions that meet all conditions, it doesn't matter which solution you had in mind; all solutions are created equal.

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Avina
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Re: Sudoku Classic

Post by Avina » Sat 08 Nov, 2014 10:46 am

To all of the friends in sudoku :
:idea: My intention was of best solution is the strongest solution, otherwise all solutions are correct.
Avina

Hausigel
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Re: Sudoku Classic

Post by Hausigel » Sat 08 Nov, 2014 6:34 pm

It doesn't matter if you write "best", "strongest" or whatever. The puzzle has five correct solutions, and you are simply wrong to assume that one of them is preferable to the others. Uniqueness can only come from an additional rule, but since you are not providing one to resolve the ambiguity, it just comes down to a guessing game which of the solutions you like best. This is not in the spirit of logic puzzles.
Hausigel

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Avina
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Re: Sudoku Classic

Post by Avina » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 5:58 am

When (http://www.sudokuwiki.org) accept my solution, then from what you say your mentions goes under question! I have said before that sudoku solver has shown the five solution as a whole (solution count), but when sudoku solver (sudokuwiki.org) is solving one by one (Take step), exactly chooses my solution point. And the reason that Sudoku solver has chosen my solution is because it is the strongest or the best.
Again I want to emphasize that I am all together ready to accept whatever you say.
This was an experience for me.
Avina

Hausigel
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Re: Sudoku Classic

Post by Hausigel » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 3:26 pm

This is actually a flaw of the Sudoku Solver you are referring to: The step where it excludes the other four solution is critically based on the assumption that the solution is already unique. But since the assumption itself is wrong, the outcome is meaningless.
Basically, any argument based on an incorrection assumption like this can be used to go in either direction. The reason why the Solver shows this particular solution is not connected to any undisputable criterion, but solely on its programming.
In practice, a human solver cannot determine which of the five solutions you want without actually using the Sudoku Solver, which directly violates the purpose of solving by hand. (In a contest, all five solutions would have to be accepted as correct. This is why puzzles without a unique solution or not practicable for puzzle contests.)
Hausigel

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Avina
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Re: Sudoku Classic

Post by Avina » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 11:00 am

Oh my God!
:idea: When I designed this puzzle, I didn’t refer this sudoku solver, but after putting it here, some of friends sent mails and comments about the sudoku solver. I also solved my puzzle of sudoku solver and I realized friend’s comments. This was interesting for me that exactly it has chosen my solution!
However, note : The choice most numbers that are candidates for the remaining cells, we will have the pair of numbers in 4 cells, and this meaning is 2 answer, and those are correct but those are not possible, because 1 solution is possible. For example : If E2 = 1, we will have in A2&B2 3&9.
3,9 are pair in A2,B2; now we must choose 3 or 9. Both are correct but we can also look to other numbers. And the process will continue with whole numbers, we’ll understand this is better to choose the numbers that give me 1 solution not 2 solution . For example with choosing : A3=3 , we will see the puzzle will solve to the end simply with 1 solution, because we have not pair. Or A2=1, this is also like that (A3).
If at all candidates, choose the ones that are right for us to give an answer, we just solved.
If with choose candidates that in process give me pair, those are not possible.
I hope you understand and excuse me for several solution.
Avina

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Avina
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Re: Sudoku Classic

Post by Avina » Tue 11 Nov, 2014 9:24 am

I owe an apology to all.
I’ve designed this puzzle a long time ago. And I must review it before putting here.
I knew it has pairs, but I have forgotten that it has several solutions.
Due to comments here, last night I decided to revise the puzzle and I solved that with all candidates. According to the initial solution and then placing candidates in each cell of the puzzle, the remaining cells will be as follows:
I realized puzzle has a 3 different answer except pairs. Those are:

1. If A8=9 , E3=7
2. If A2=9 , E7=7
3. If A3=3 or E2 = 3 or E3 =1 : (which ever you with start, we will have 1 solution with any of 3 choice, because each one gives the same answer )

Of course, this is important for everyone to know how to start solving puzzles.
In my opinion, in fact there are 3 solutions for this puzzle, and the solutions related to the pairs.
If item 1 and 2 above could be ignored, then item 3 above would be the only solution for this puzzle. And we could accept it as the unique solution.

Please accept my apologies for neglecting to consider the possible solutions available.
Avina

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