Any interest in a UK croco-puzzle ladder?

For the discussion of daily/weekly puzzles.
nickdeller
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Re: Any interest in a UK croco-puzzle ladder?

Post by nickdeller » Wed 07 Sep, 2011 11:30 pm

detuned wrote:Hmm, well at least this is topical...

anyway it turns out I am back on the road Thursday evening rather than Friday morning, and as such will not have time for Fridays puzzles (which reminds me, I'm falling behind on my blog :shock: ). If at all possible, can I request a bye for Friday?
I believe I'm 5-3 down on Tom following the Thursday puzzles, and I'm happy to shake hands on that as the match result if Chris has no objection.

dickoon
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Re: Any interest in a UK croco-puzzle ladder?

Post by dickoon » Thu 08 Sep, 2011 8:25 am

No problem! I think a reasonably general principle of "(just about?) anything is OK if the two players concerned agree to it" seems reasonable, with the "(just about?)" only coming into play if they propose resolving the match through arm-wrestling rather than puzzle-solving. Additionally, asking for a bye request well before what you've seen the day's puzzles are going to be makes the request much more obviously reasonable.

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Re: Any interest in a UK croco-puzzle ladder?

Post by dickoon » Fri 09 Sep, 2011 10:40 pm

Extra time!

I believe that the kiwijam - drsteve Championship Match has finished 5-5 and thus must go to extra time. For the rest of the world, I have a suspicion that this weekend's U-ratsels aren't going to be factored into the overall standings, if the translator's working properly on this - but for you two, I fear five days have proved insufficient to split you and a sixth will be required.

Exciting results to follow ASAP!

drsteve
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Re: Any interest in a UK croco-puzzle ladder?

Post by drsteve » Sat 10 Sep, 2011 7:09 am

Well, there's a message saying that the website is down for maintenance over the weekend, so I guess we'll have to decide it on times - which I think means James gets it, after my awful Laser on Wednesday.

EDIT: Oh, it's back again. Ignore that last comment

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Re: Any interest in a UK croco-puzzle ladder?

Post by dickoon » Sat 10 Sep, 2011 6:17 pm

Here are the results of the twenty-fourth week of the UK croco-puzzle ladder:

Code: Select all

                    | kiwijam   drsteve | detuned   oenomel | ronaldx   PuzzleScot | rodders   puzzlemad |
Monday              |                   |                   |                      |                     |
Thermometer         | 10:59     09:19   | 12:49     07:09   | 04:42     13:44      | 08:29     16:01     |
Magisches Labyrinth | 02:03     00:41   | 01:28     02:36   | 01:55     01:28      | 02:26     02:09     |
Tuesday             |                   |                   |                      |                     |
Masyu               | 05:33     07:13   | 09:40     07:56   | 08:32     05:57      | 20:32     18:15     |
Arukone             | 02:41     01:21   | 01:37     03:19   | 06:52     04:24      | 12:08     07:47     |
Wednesday           |                   |                   |                      |                     |
Tapa                | 00:51     00:54   | 00:54     01:14   | 00:50     01:00      | 01:46     01:02     |
Laser               | 07:36     34:50   | 05:31     08:23   | 09:05     08:32      | 13:04     13:11     |
Thursday            |                   |                   |                      |                     |
Thermometer         | 05:42     02:47   | 09:29     03:10   | 03:02     05:56      |                     |
Hashi               | 01:28     06:15   | 01:31     02:39   | 01:02     01:02      |                     |
Friday              |                   |                   |                      |                     |
ABC-Box             | 03:04     03:09   |                   | 04:20     09:00      |                     |
Kropki              | 03:30     02:54   |                   | 03:23     03:32      |                     |
Saturday            |                   |                   |                      |                     |
Magnetplattenrätsel | 10:21     06:35   |                   |                      |                     |
Killersudoku        | 20:16     11:24   |                   |                      |                     |
MON-FRI SCORE       | 5         5       | 5         3       | 5         4          | 2         4         |
FINAL SCORE         | 5         7       | 5         3       | 5         4          | 2         4         |
TOTAL TIME          | 74:04     87:22   | 42:59     36:26   | 43:43     54:35      | 58:25     58:25     |
kiwijam 5 drsteve 7 after extra time
detuned 5 oenomel 3
ronaldx 5 PuzzleScot 4 (and a tie on the Hashi on Thursday!)
rodders 2 puzzlemad 4

Errors and omissions excepted, of course, and I had a double Fehlversuche in translating the results in the table to the lines immediately below the table last week, ahem. (Thanks to Alan for pointing this out very discreetly.) I have upgraded the spreadsheet with this in mind to remove another possible place for me to include manual errors.

Congratulations to our winners, particularly to Steve on regaining the championship after a sparkling week with some extremely strong performances! Commiserations to rodders, who is relegated from the ladder after being a strong contender from the very start, coming as close to winning the championship as the "total times" tie-break in week seven. Thanks for playing, Roderick; you're most welcome to rejoin any time, and unless you say otherwise I'll put you on the waiting list to join again - and while the ladder is a much fiercer place than once it was, I wouldn't bet against you making another long run at the top.

I'm considering a rule change to the tie-breaking system; currently if a match is tied after extra time I consider the total time taken over all the puzzles. I'm considering possibly changing this to taking the geometric mean of the time taken for all the puzzles - i.e., if there have been twelve puzzles and the match finished 6-6, multiply all twelve times together and take the twelfth root. Doesn't sound like the most intuitive or easy-to-understand thing, but effectively it changes the way that margins are computed from "a minute longer" and "thirty seconds shorter" to "three times as long" and "half as long", and so on - so if you have been twice as quick as your opponent in one puzzle but half as quick in another puzzle, the two cancel each other out. (I'm not inclined to change the time for a Fehlversuch down from 9999:99 here, as having the effective first tie-breaker being "number of puzzles completed at all, regardless of time" seems as good a starting-point as any.) The obvious major criticism is that the system arguably relied too heavily on performance on the long puzzles before and this shifts it to arguably relying too heavily on the short puzzles - but what do you good people think, please?

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Re: Any interest in a UK croco-puzzle ladder?

Post by dickoon » Sat 10 Sep, 2011 6:22 pm

The twenty-fifth week's matches are as follows:

CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH
drsteve vs. detuned
Winner becomes (or remains) champion and defends the championship next week, loser descends to the #1 contender match next week.

#1 CONTENDER MATCH
kiwijam vs. ronaldx
Winner becomes #1 contender and gets a championship match next week, loser descends to the #2 contender match next week.

#2 CONTENDER MATCH
oenomel vs puzzlemad
Winner becomes #2 contender and gets a #1 contender match next week, loser descends to the relegation match next week.

RELEGATION MATCH
PuzzleScot vs. erika
Winner survives and gets a #2 contender match next week, loser relegated from the ladder and replaced by whoever's at the front of the waiting list.

Waiting list: dickoon, afcwarren, rodders

Matches are to be played over Monday 12th September to Friday 16th September, with possible extra time on Saturday 17th September if required.

As ever, if you know in advance that you won't be able to take part on any particular weekday, please speak up as far in advance as you can and book yourself one or two bye days. If anybody else wants to join the waiting list, please let me know.

Good luck to everyone, though - without playing favourites - I'm looking forward to finding out what erika can do in his first time on the ladder! Not the easiest way to start, but there are no easy matches on the croco-puzzle ladder (except, perhaps, when you're playing me...)

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Re: Any interest in a UK croco-puzzle ladder?

Post by dickoon » Sat 10 Sep, 2011 8:46 pm

For completeness, here's the latest version of the UK croco-puzzle ladder resolution spreadsheet.

New features:
1) Copes better if you do not have exactly four matches; simply leave the appropriate cells blank. So if you have five matches, run the macro to load the results, enter the pairs of names for the first four matches, copy the results, paste them into your post, then enter the pair of names for the other matches, leaving the other cells blank, copy the new results, then paste these into your post.
2) Also displays geometric mean times as well as total times, whichever tie-breaker we decide to use.
3) Automatically generates the lines with the scores beneath the table so that they may be pasted in as well as the table in order to minimise manual error opportunities.
4) Even more fun to develop than the previous version of the spreadsheet, and the code is even uglier!
Attachments
croco-ladder3.xls
Latest version of croco-puzzle ladder scoring calculator
(607.43 KiB) Downloaded 293 times

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furudo.erika
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Re: Any interest in a UK croco-puzzle ladder?

Post by furudo.erika » Sun 11 Sep, 2011 3:31 pm

I'd like to request my match be sudden death as I won't have any internet access for extra time on Saturday.

I think I'm going to depend on the right puzzle types coming up. For example, on Tuesday I beat the whole ladder at Masyu then lost to everyone on the Arukone. Though it probably didn't help that I hadn't realised some squares could be left empty making my Numberlink strategies actively misleading.

dickoon
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Re: Any interest in a UK croco-puzzle ladder?

Post by dickoon » Sun 11 Sep, 2011 5:47 pm

No problem at all! If it's 5-5 after Friday then we'll go straight to the tie-breaker.

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Re: Any interest in a UK croco-puzzle ladder?

Post by puzzlemad » Mon 12 Sep, 2011 10:21 pm

Cheesed off with my connection this week. Two of the last four puzzles I've done I've solved, got a completion time, then my connection to Croco has dropped and the time not registered, then I've had to fiddle around to get the connection back and resolve. One of those I had to leave till the the following morning and another the connection dropped after I'd pressed the initialise button, before it had even let me press start, but when I got onto it, the clock had already started. Lots of big minus scores!

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furudo.erika
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Re: Any interest in a UK croco-puzzle ladder?

Post by furudo.erika » Wed 14 Sep, 2011 4:29 pm

New, more realitic goal: avoid getting whitewashed :(

PuzzleScot
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Re: Any interest in a UK croco-puzzle ladder?

Post by PuzzleScot » Wed 14 Sep, 2011 4:47 pm

furudo.erika wrote:New, more realitic goal: avoid getting whitewashed :(
:lol: Not sure where my miraculous form has come from. If I carry on like this, I might top the board within a few weeks!

kiwijam
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Re: Any interest in a UK croco-puzzle ladder?

Post by kiwijam » Thu 15 Sep, 2011 5:35 am

Wow Tom, currently top 3 in both puzzles today. Don't you think that's rather unfair on your opponent? ;)

drsteve
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Re: Any interest in a UK croco-puzzle ladder?

Post by drsteve » Thu 15 Sep, 2011 5:50 am

kiwijam wrote:Wow Tom, currently top 3 in both puzzles today. Don't you think that's rather unfair on your opponent? ;)
Yeah, cut it out, Tom.

Actually, saves me a mad panic trying to squeeze in the Killer Sudoku today - no time at all, but I can't beat that time so I'll just leave it. Congrats on the victory Tom.

detuned
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Re: Any interest in a UK croco-puzzle ladder?

Post by detuned » Thu 15 Sep, 2011 8:49 am

I can't hope for many better days than a Masyu and a Sudoku - so I'm fully expecting 2 rather nasty puzzles for me to make lots of fehlvers on to balance everything out on Friday :roll:

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Re: Any interest in a UK croco-puzzle ladder?

Post by PuzzleScot » Thu 15 Sep, 2011 9:07 am

That's fantastic regardless Tom, well done! Can you keep that level up for 12 rounds in November ?!?! 8-)

Erika, I've left the door open on the Killer Sudoku to salvage your pride...

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furudo.erika
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Re: Any interest in a UK croco-puzzle ladder?

Post by furudo.erika » Thu 15 Sep, 2011 5:23 pm

You'll need to multi-Fehlversuch to lose to me on a Killer Sudoku but I've made it anyway cause a Maysu came up :D

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Re: Any interest in a UK croco-puzzle ladder?

Post by dickoon » Thu 15 Sep, 2011 6:24 pm

Can I express delight at the way the UK croco-puzzle performances seem to be getting better and better? It wasn't so long ago that we had three solvers at 1800+ - now we have five at 1800+ and three at, or around, the 2000 mark (and, more to the point, some seriously impressive Tagesratings, especially from those who might not have been in the ladder for quite so long and so may well have a current rating well below their potential). It's a lot of fun to find your level and then see your level inch up slightly over time, whatever level you're at.

I'm not sure that the croco-puzzle ladder necessarily adds much to the appeal here when it's the fun and competition of the croco-puzzle rating system that keeps (at least!) me coming back, so I'm not going to take the credit here, but just generally, yay croco-puzzle and yay for British croco-puzzle solvers.

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Re: Any interest in a UK croco-puzzle ladder?

Post by dickoon » Fri 16 Sep, 2011 8:20 pm

Here are the results of the twenty-fifth week of the UK croco-puzzle ladder:

Code: Select all

                    | drsteve    detuned | kiwijam    ronaldx | oenomel   puzzlemad | PuzzleScot   erika   |
Monday              |                    |                    |                     |                      |
Zeltlager           | 05:00      04:18   | 05:27      11:52   | 06:08     433:57    | 05:48        22:52   |
Gebietssummen       | 01:49      00:56   | 01:57      01:09   | 01:24     02:46     | 01:41        05:44   |
Tuesday             |                    |                    |                     |                      |
Magnetplattenrätsel | 01:01      01:31   | 01:13      03:28   | 01:07     06:24     | 00:54        01:46   |
Kropki              | 01:30      01:33   | 01:54      02:07   | 02:52     11:41     | 03:45        18:34   |
Wednesday           |                    |                    |                     |                      |
Fillomino           | 08:16      02:42   | 03:03      03:11   | 03:29     14:23     | 03:14        13:45   |
Hashi               | 00:58      00:56   | 00:59      06:05   | 01:28     01:26     | 00:55        01:08   |
Thursday            |                    |                    |                     |                      |
Masyu               | 00:52      00:31   | 00:49      01:17   | 01:35     01:26     | 01:14        00:53   |
Killersudoku        | 9999:59    03:42   | 10:12      13:08   | 08:02     15:28     | 18:03        25:47   |
Friday              |                    |                    |                     |                      |
Bahnhöfe            | 08:33      06:04   | 06:31      07:05   | 07:13     10:42     | 09:26        05:18   |
Sudoku              | 00:54      00:21   | 9999:59    01:10   | 01:11     02:33     | 03:06        03:13   |
FINAL SCORE         | 2          8       | 8          2       | 8         2         | 8            2       |
TOTAL TIME          | 10028:52   22:34   | 10032:04   50:32   | 34:29     500:46    | 48:06        99:00   |
G-MEAN TIME         | 4:51.72    1:34.76 | 5:45.43    3:29.56 | 2:37.21   8:02.01   | 3:01.34      5:30.89 |
drsteve 2 detuned 8
kiwijam 8 ronaldx 2
oenomel 8 puzzlemad 2
PuzzleScot 8 erika 2

Well, there's a thing! Technically I might be releasing these results too early because James might yet come back to win today's Sudoku, but I rather like the symmetry and the overall results of the matches are not in doubt.

Congratulations to our winners, particularly to Tom (Tom C.) on regaining the championship! Commiserations to erika, who is relegated from the ladder. Thanks for playing, Thomas (Thomas P.); you're most welcome to rejoin any time, and unless you say otherwise I'll put you on the waiting list to join again. I will say that you're already definitely there or thereabouts in terms of your ability to compete; if you'd been facing me then the match would have finished 5-5, and there is at least one other ladder participant against whom you'd have had a result over the course of the week.

I'm still thinking about changing the tie-breaking system from the total time to the geometric mean time, which is why it's published above along with the total time. Let's follow its progress for a few weeks until there comes a situation where it would make a difference from total time in practice, and then decide which is better. Opinions are definitely welcome, though.

dickoon
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Re: Any interest in a UK croco-puzzle ladder?

Post by dickoon » Fri 16 Sep, 2011 8:24 pm

The twenty-sixth week's matches are as follows:

CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH
detuned vs. kiwijam
Winner becomes (or remains) champion and defends the championship next week, loser descends to the #1 contender match next week.

#1 CONTENDER MATCH
drsteve vs. oenomel
Winner becomes #1 contender and gets a championship match next week, loser descends to the #2 contender match next week.

#2 CONTENDER MATCH
ronaldx vs PuzzleScot
Winner becomes #2 contender and gets a #1 contender match next week, loser descends to the relegation match next week.

RELEGATION MATCH
puzzlemad vs. dickoon
Winner survives and gets a #2 contender match next week, loser relegated from the ladder and replaced by whoever's at the front of the waiting list.

Waiting list: afcwarren, rodders, erika

Matches are to be played over Monday 19th September to Friday 23rd September, with possible extra time on Saturday 24th September if required.

As ever, if you know in advance that you won't be able to take part on any particular weekday, please speak up as far in advance as you can and book yourself one or two bye days. If anybody else wants to join the waiting list, please let me know.

Unrelatedly, if anyone has downloaded the croco-puzzle scoring spreadsheet that I uploaded and found that the macro won't work for them, try renaming it from croco-ladder3.xls to croco-ladder2.xls, reopening it and trying the macro again. You probably figured that out already, though; well, it wouldn't do for there not to be a puzzle in there... :oops:

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furudo.erika
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Re: Any interest in a UK croco-puzzle ladder?

Post by furudo.erika » Tue 20 Sep, 2011 5:03 pm

Speaking of dodgy coding here's a bookmarklet that turns the names of all the UK ladder participants blue in the Highscoretabellen. I knocked it together to make it easier to see how I was doing and thought I'd share in case anyone else found it useful.

PuzzleScot
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Re: Any interest in a UK croco-puzzle ladder?

Post by PuzzleScot » Tue 20 Sep, 2011 6:44 pm

Great idea, but it doesn't work for me - just takes me to the dev site you built it on :(

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furudo.erika
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Re: Any interest in a UK croco-puzzle ladder?

Post by furudo.erika » Wed 21 Sep, 2011 11:37 am

The link just goes to the dev site as the forum software quite reasonably won't allow javascript links.

Can I check you're:
1) Going to the dev site then adding the bookmarklet as per instructions on the page
2) Going to http://www.croco-puzzle.com/Ue-Raetsel/highscore.php
3) Clicking the bookmarklet in your browser.
and it still doesn't work?

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Re: Any interest in a UK croco-puzzle ladder?

Post by PuzzleScot » Wed 21 Sep, 2011 1:43 pm

Ah, I'm with you now. All working fine. Good job!

[edit:] I modified my version to highlight other non-ladder Brits in 'aqua'

[edit2:] Since that doesn't work on the ratingslist table, I made a minor mod, so this one will work there (only)

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furudo.erika
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Re: Any interest in a UK croco-puzzle ladder?

Post by furudo.erika » Wed 21 Sep, 2011 4:46 pm

Combined and refactored to remove copy paste coding: version 2a

Edited: missed out 'detuned'; sorry Tom.
Last edited by furudo.erika on Mon 10 Oct, 2011 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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